OnlyFems is a conversation, a safe space, amongst women all over the world, in the hope that we women can see “we are not alone”. Those who join the OnlyFems community will take away with them practical tools to pursue and gain financial independence, advice on how to climb the corporate ladder, tangible and concrete ways on managing and overcoming failures, and be given the keys to SHINE SO EVERY BRIGHTLY. To every woman that has ever craved a safe space, To every woman that wants to achieve financial independence, To every woman that wants to level up every aspect of their life, To every woman that wants to become a better version of themselves, WELCOME HOME. Join me each and every Wednesday at 10 am on YouTube and Apple Podcasts on OnlyFems. Today's guest is Lt Col. Christina "Thumper" Hopper. As a Lieutenant Colonel in the Air Force, Thumper has overcome multiple challenges on the military and leadership battlefields. In the year 2000, Thumper was selected to fly the F-16 becoming one of only two African-American females and 50 total female fighter pilots in the Air Force at that time. Following the tragic events of 9/11, Thumper flew more than 50 combat air patrol missions and became the first African-American female fighter pilot to fight in a major war. For her service, she was awarded the Air Medal, Aerial Achievement Medal, and Combat Action Medal and Good Housekeeping Magazine named Thumper as one of the "Outstanding Women in Government”. She has also been featured by global media outlets, such as Glamour Magazine, the Ebony Magazine, and the 700 Club. I am so proud to be sponsored by Quantfury, a dynamic fintech brokerage that was founded by a group of quants, machine learning professionals, and change agents who had a vision for transforming and driving change in the retail trading industry through technology, with an overarching mission to deliver financial independence to all.
Iyandra (00:11):
So today on the first episode of Only Fems podcast, we have the dynamic Lieutenant Colonel, Christina Thumper Hopper. Thumper has overcome to many challenges in the military and on leadership battlefields. In the year 2000, Thumper was selected to fly the F16, becoming one of only two African American females and 50 total female pi- fighter pilots in the air force at that time. Following the tragic events of 9/11, Thumper flew more than 50 combat air patrol missions and became the first black American fighter pilot to fight in a major war.
(00:49):
I am so, so inspired by you, Thumper. Thank you so much for joining us on Only Fems.
Christina Thumper Hopper (00:56):
It's my pleasure to be here.
Iyandra (00:58):
Yeah. I was just telling you this love story that I have for you. Because I'm completely inspired your, by your ability to be in a male dominated environment, thrive in that environment, overcome adversity, uh, push forward. And so I, really excited about just understanding, you know, how- how did you even get here? Like, how did you get to the point where you've been able to truly overcome? And I like to always start by asking, you know, tell us a little bit about your background. And what about your background got you to where you are right now?
Christina Thumper Hopper (01:32):
Well, um, you're right. Everybody has kind of an origin story. You know, all the superheroes that you, um, read about in the comic books or- or watch movies about. And, um, and I too have an origin story. Um, I grew up in an air force family. Both of my parents served in the air force. And, um, so I was always kind of around that world, always around that environment. But it's never something that I thought I would do myself. Um, in fact when I was growing up it was my older brother who would draw pictures of F16s and talk about being a pilot. Um, but it was never something that I envisioned for myself. Um, when I was a junior in high school, my mother asked me if I was interested in going to the air force academy and I told her, "No mom, I don't wanna be in the air force." And she said, "Okay."
(02:22):
Um, but then when I- I got to college, I had the opportunity to, um, get, uh, academic scholarship. And when I went up to the freshman orientation, there was a table that was set up. And I saw the familiar blue uniform. And it kind of was just drawing me in. And I can't tell you what it was about it. Um, it could've been my background and upbringing, but I just wanted to go and talk to them. So I told... My mom was with me. And I told her, I said, "Hey, I wanna go over and talk to them about the ROTC program." And she said, "Well I thought you said you didn't wanna be in the air force." And I said-
Iyandra (02:59):
Right?
Christina Thumper Hopper (02:59):
... "Well, I just wanna talk to them." So I went over and I started talking with them about the ROTC program. And they got me intrigued and they got my signed up. And, um, that's how I got my start in the air force. But for pilot training, it was my junior year in college where my ROTC instructor called me into his office and asked why I did not put in an application for pilot training. And I told him, sir, I don't think I'm qualified to be a pilot. And, um, I didn't have a technical degree. Um, it wasn't something I ever thought that I could do. And I thought that you had to have certain other qualifications to be able to pursue it.
(03:41):
And he said, "You just need your degree. And you need to get your commission. And you need to sign up." So I told him I needed to pray about that. Um, I spent a couple of weeks praying about it. And then I had a very vivid dream. And when I woke up the next morning, I knew that I was supposed to pursue being a fighter pilot. And that's why you'll often hear me say that, um, I didn't fly, find flying, that flying found me.
(04:10):
but once we were married up together it was a match made in heaven. Um, and the reason that I say that is because I feel like it wasn't something that I grew up wanting to do. It wasn't something that I thought that I could do. But then having that dream and kind of planting that seed in my mind, um, that became the impetus to pursue something that now, as I look back on it, I can't see myself having done anything else.
Iyandra (04:36):
Wow. You said so many things there that I wanna dive into. Because, you know, the first thing, you didn't, you didn't know, or you didn't think that you had the c- technical abilities, right? You had the qualifications to even do, uh, you know, flying, you know, to be, to be a fighter pilot. And so many of us, especially in industries like- like in tech or- or US air force, or other male dominated in- dominated industries, we're thinking, oh, well I'm not technical. I don't have what it takes. And I just think about how your career could've been so different if that gentleman in the ROTC didn't tell you, "Yeah, you can do it."
(05:18):
Uh, that- that was interesting. And- and I just, I just wonder how many of us truly are saying to ourselves or closing off b- you know, pathways to new adventures just because we think we don't have the skills? I mean w- what do you, what do you say to women that are in that situation now? That are thinking, oh, well I'm not technical enough. Uh, I don't know if I can do that. I don't know if I really have the skills for that. I mean where- where should they begin?
Christina Thumper Hopper (05:45):
Yeah, you know, I think that's so true. And especially for women, I think we often deal with imposter syndrome or that idea that-
Iyandra (05:52):
Oh yeah.
Christina Thumper Hopper (05:53):
... we're not as capable, that we're not as qualified or competent as our male peers. And in fact I remember reading a statistic once that really stood out to me. And the statistic was that women will often not apply for a promotion, for a job position, or an opportunity unless they believe they are 100% qualified. Whereas men will tend to be about 60% qualified. So if they have most of the qualifications but not all, they'll consider, yeah, I'm gonna try. I'm gonna put myself out there and try it. But we women, I think we have this viewpoint that we just need to be perfect. We have to have it all together, we have to know all the facts. We need to have all of the competencies in order to pursue something.
(06:40):
And so what I realized when I read that was that men are getting about two times the opportunities that we are getting. And it's because of ourselves, we're holding ourselves back. And when I learned that, it helped me to start taking more risks. And to start putting myself out there and to try even when I felt like maybe I'm not quite there yet, but let me just give it a go. And you know what I found? When I did that, I was getting the same opportunities as my male peers.
(07:13):
And so I think that that is a lesson to so many women out there because I know that I'm not the only one that thinks like that. I think a lot of us women tend to self eliminate or hold ourselves back because we think we're not quite there yet. Or maybe our male peers know a little bit more and that's why they're putting themselves out there. But the truth is, is that we just have to become more courageous and be willing to take those same risks that they are. And I think that that's gonna get us, um, some of the opportunities that we're looking for and some of the break throughs and openings.
Iyandra (07:45):
Just do it. Just do it.
Christina Thumper Hopper (07:46):
Just do it.
Iyandra (07:47):
Don't- don't be concerned that, oh, I don't have the resume. I mean stop waiting for, oh, I need to be 110% qualified for the role to be able to put myself forward. But just go ahead and do it. I love that. I love that so much. And you mentioned that, you know, flying found you. You didn't necessarily go looking for flying. And I just think about how many of us are thinking, oh, what's my dream job? When- when is it gonna happen? We just need to do stuff, you know? Just- just go in the ROTC office, just do things to eventually find what- what we're meant to do.
(08:21):
Um, you know, so for the woman that now is sitting in her room and there are a lot of women around the world who are sitting down in jobs they don't like, that they're not passionate about. They don't know what their dream job is, and frankly they don't know what they even wanna do. Uh, what do you tell them?
Christina Thumper Hopper (08:39):
Yeah. I would agree. Um, I think that instead of looking at specific jobs, think about your competencies. Like your aptitudes. What- what are you good at, you know? And- and what do you like? Um, for me it was sports. I loved sports. And it's interesting because one of the things, when I looked back and asked myself, why did my ROTC commander want me to pursue being a pilot? Why did he even think that I would be good at it? I realized that there is a distinct link between sports and aviation. And it includes the ability to be spatial, the, um, the- the grit that it takes to kind of dig in deep when you're in the middle of a hard competition. Um, the ability to think quickly on your feet. If you're in a ball game and you're trying to, you know, calculate what is my competition gonna do, and- and how are they gonna orient against me? Um, those kinds of same mental skills and same physical skills apply to flying.
(09:42):
And so that's what I would encourage people to do is, if you don't know exactly what that perfect job is, think about your competencies, think about what, uh, assets you have. And- and then try to do some research and find out, okay, these are the skillsets that I really have. And these are the things that I really like doing. What kind of job matches those things? And I think that's where we find the jobs that we get really passionate about, the jobs that we, um, tend to just love for a lifetime and that we wanna stick with. And so that it's not just a job but it becomes a career and a calling.
Iyandra (10:17):
Yeah. Welcome, welcome to Master Class by Lieutenant Colonel Christina Thumper Hopper. (laughs) 'Cause I feel like I'm in a class because you are giving the most incredible advice that I can take away. And me myself I can follow. Uh, just think about those things that- that we're good at. And, you know, and where can those skillsets or the, or those gifts and talents be transferred into?
(10:39):
Uh, you mentioned a word that I absolutely love, grit. Grit is just this powerful trait. Um, it just seems like this ability to bounce back from- from obstacles from failures. It's something that is so needed if- if you want to achieve success in life. 'Cause life can be really hard, especially for women, people of color. Uh, and there are just obstacles that seem incredibly insurmountable. And so I can imagine that you've developed some tremendous grit. You've faced some real challenges.
(11:10):
I'm curious, what have been, what has been your biggest challenge or what would've been your biggest challenges and how have you been able to overcome them?
Christina Thumper Hopper (11:17):
You know, um, I think that one of my greatest challenges has been just getting outside of my own mindset and my own failures. Um, I think so often when we fail, we wanna think of ourselves as a failure. And-
Iyandra (11:38):
Yes, yes.
Christina Thumper Hopper (11:38):
... what I learned through some of the difficulties that I went through and some of the, um, the failures that I faced, is that it wasn't so much about identifying myself as a failure, but learning that I could learn through the failure. And that the failures were actually stepping stones to my success. Um, and so I could give you specific examples of failures, of whether it's as a mom. I think some of greatest failures have been as a mom. Or a wife. Um, sometimes those are the harder ones to forgive ourselves for.
(12:14):
Um, but one of the things that I kind of came up with for myself and that I teach my students and teach others is an acronym that I call FACE. It's face your failure. And it stands for forgive, the F is for forgive. You have to forgive yourself. When you make a mistake you forgive yourself and you understand that you're human and all humans make mistakes. And you're not gonna always get it right. And then the next thing you do is you accept. You accept that, okay, I make that mistake and I can't go back and change that. So now I've gotta focus on the future and what I actually can change.
(12:50):
And then you capture your thoughts. So that's the C. The C is capture your thoughts because oftentimes when we make a mistake we get into the failure spiral. Where we just start talking about, okay, I'm a failure, this is why I'm never gonna succeed. This is why I don't get it right and I don't get the opportunities. And so you've gotta take captive those thoughts. And then focus on not so much the fact that you are a failure, take that away from your identity and focus on what happened. And that allows you to get to the E, which is evaluate. Evaluate what went wrong, okay? Why did I make that mistake? Take it away from who you are and just focus on the thing that happened. Now you can start to get at solutions. So that you don't keep making the same mistakes over, and over, and over again.
(13:39):
And I feel like that's what's helped me build resilience. It's what- what has helped me to overcome the mistakes that I make. Um, you talked earlier about being in a male dominated career field. And I think oftentimes, um, as women in a male dominated career field, um, and maybe men face this too. But we feel like we have to be perfect because we have to keep proving ourselves and keep proving that we belong there. And that if we make a mistake, that that is going to prove to our peers why we don't belong there. And so I think FACE really helped me to understand that when I make a mistake it doesn't make me an imposter, it doesn't make me a failure. It makes me human. And I can learn from that-
Iyandra (14:26):
Right.
Christina Thumper Hopper (14:26):
... and it will make me better. And it will help me to develop resilience. And then help me to help other develop that same type of resilience.
Iyandra (14:36):
Wow. Wow. I'm, that- that was so much to take in. FACE. So face it, face your failure, accept that it happened, capture your thoughts, and evaluate. Evaluate what went wrong. I'm gonna take that with me. Uh, because it's so right what you said about, you know, being in male dominated spaces as a woman. You feel like you just don't have room to fail.
Christina Thumper Hopper (14:58):
Mm-hmm.
Iyandra (14:59):
And when you fail and when you make that mistake it's like so magnified. And, because you stand out already.
Christina Thumper Hopper (15:05):
Yeah.
Iyandra (15:06):
And you question yourself, uh, you think about what others are thinking about you. And you beat yourself up. And when you experience that failure, you wanna give up. But the reality is failure is just a lesson. And it- it's helping us to move forward in a more stronger way.
(15:23):
Uh, and- and I'm curious because combat fighter pilot, just it- it's... I watched Top Gun last year and I was like, this is hard. This is really hard. And I'm just thinking, though, the US air- air force what, I'm not sure the exact statistic right now. But last time I check it was over 12,500 combat fighter pilots. And less than 50 of those were women.
Christina Thumper Hopper (15:49):
Mm-hmm.
Iyandra (15:50):
Let's talk about just how the culture is there. I mean how does a woman come in there, in an environment that is pretty much all male, and actually succeed? How can they assimilate effectively in- in a culture that's just male driven? A culture that wasn't even created with them in mind.
Christina Thumper Hopper (16:11):
Yeah, you know, um, it- it's challenging. Um, when I showed up to my first fighter assignment I was the first female in that squadron and the only female, um, that was there during the duration of my time. And so I did feel like when I first showed up that there was a scrutiny. And I don't know if that was a self-imposed scrutiny or if it was actually. Maybe a little bit of both. Um, where I felt like they're all looking at me and waiting for me to either fail or succeed.
(16:39):
And I felt like I was carrying the weight of the world on my shoulders because I felt like if I mess this up, then I'm messing it up for all womankind. And that's- that's a huge burden to carry. Um, and so through that process of- of being there and, um, just trying not to make mistakes, trying to get it right, trying to do well. Um, I- I felt like up until the point where we deployed and, um, and we- we got to Iraq together and, um, and we flew our missions together and we really... It's- it's kind of like a sports team where you just start to bond. And, um, and you form friendships. Uh, you- you know that they have your back and you've got theirs. There's a lot of mutual support there.
(17:28):
When you go through that type of- of stressful, um, challenge with other people you can't help but come out with a connectedness. So I will say, yes, there were challenges. There were challenges that included, um, equipment challenges. Like all the equipment that we wore was created for a man, including out flight suits. And so-
Iyandra (17:49):
Oh. I've heard about the flight suit, I heard about that.
Christina Thumper Hopper (17:51):
Yeah.
Iyandra (17:52):
How did you use the bathroom and all?
Christina Thumper Hopper (17:54):
Simple things, like how do I use the bathroom? And then going to life support who maintains all of our equipment and asking them, hey, what do you have? The first thing that I was told was, um, well most of the females that we've seen in the past have, um, have worn Depends. You know, the adult diapers. And I was thinking, huh, adult diapers don't go with Top Gun.
Iyandra (18:16):
(laughs)
Christina Thumper Hopper (18:19):
They don't go together.
Iyandra (18:20):
Yes.
Christina Thumper Hopper (18:21):
And so I thought, okay, there's gotta be a better way. And so I will say that the- the 50 women that were in the fighter career field when I started, we all began to connect. And we all began to form, um, you know, our own coalition of, um, just encouragers mentoring each other, talking about the issues that we were facing that maybe the men didn't have to deal with. And trying to come up with solution, um, for ourselves. So we- we basically innovatively formed a path for- for women that would come after us, including, um, you know, devices for how they were gonna use the bathroom. New wom- uh, female flight suits. A new regulations that would guide how women, um, who were active flyers could also have children and then get back on flying status.
(19:09):
So there were just a lot of issues that we had to work through. And- and I will say that it took probably I'm about two decades later now. And it's taken up till, um, the last couple years to see some of fruits of the seeds that we planted. Um, so that would be my encouragement when- when- when you find yourself in a male dominated career field and you find yourself in situations where, um, maybe all of the regulations or policies don't suit women, or don't suit, um, you in- in whatever your diverse, um, needs are.
Iyandra (19:45):
Yeah.
Christina Thumper Hopper (19:46):
That you begin to plant the seeds to talk with people and have those, um, authentic and just honest conversations about what you need to be successful. And also be willing to do the work yourself. Because in some cases you're going to have to show them how they do it. And, um, and then open the doors for people that come after you. And I can tell you that in many ways I think that, um, that it's better for women now because of what we did a couple of decades ago.
Iyandra (20:15):
Yeah. Yeah. It's so, um, amazing that you said tell them what you need. 'Cause, you know, far too often we don't want to speak up and say, well, we need a flying suit that's designed for our body. Because-
Christina Thumper Hopper (20:29):
Yeah.
Iyandra (20:30):
... we're just so happy to be here.
Christina Thumper Hopper (20:31):
Yeah.
Iyandra (20:32):
Uh-
Christina Thumper Hopper (20:32):
And we don't wanna, we don't wanna rock the boat. We don't wanna-
Iyandra (20:35):
Yeah.
Christina Thumper Hopper (20:36):
... bother people and- and- and we want them, you know, people say, for example, I just wanna be one of the guys. And yes you do, but in some ways you can't. You can be but you can't be. And so in those areas where you can't be, you have to communicate that. So that-
Iyandra (20:49):
Yeah.
Christina Thumper Hopper (20:49):
... you can be successful and so that you can give, your needs can be met and then you can give them what they need from you.
Iyandra (20:56):
Yeah. Oh that's- that's so interesting. What do you say, um, when, you know, you have persons on your team that are just like, listen, we're all equal. You know? That there's no differences between a woman and a man. Do you highlight the difference or do you just do your best to say, "Okay, listen, we're on the team. There are similarities that we have but this particular difference is something that warrants me having this." I mean how do you go about, uh-
Christina Thumper Hopper (21:23):
Well, um, it's- it's interesting 'cause I think it, the way that I pursue differences in issues is to try to start by assuming good intentions of others. And I think sometimes when, um, when we come up against, uh, what our society might refer to as, like, microaggressions or, um, you know, just those little pricks that kind of hurt you. And, um, and make you feel like you either don't fit in or that you're not validated. Um, I think it's really easy in those cases for us to become offended. And when we put up an offense, then how we approach that- that difference conversation, um, can become very contentious, right?
(22:05):
Um, and so I think if we start with assuming good intentions of other, than our tone and our response in the way that we address the issues and the time and place that we- we pick to address the issues, um, can make all the difference.
Iyandra (22:20):
Yeah.
Christina Thumper Hopper (22:20):
So that's my advice is to- to start with assuming good intentions of others. Assume that that person may not know what you need. Um, assume that they are doing the best that they can, just like you are doing the best that you can. And if you can start there... And- and it may not be true. You may come against people who are actually truly biased against you. It may not be true. But if you assume that and you respond to people in that way then your energy, your positive energy I believe rubs off on them. And over time they can't help but acknowledge you. So that's what I've found to be successful for me.
(22:57):
And I know that maybe not everybody would agree with that. And maybe not everybody would pursue it in that way. But it has really helped me to be very successful and to, um, and to have these rich diverse conversations with others. And to get them on my team, to get them on my side.
Iyandra (23:13):
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that is such great advise. You give the best advise.
Christina Thumper Hopper (23:18):
Thank you.
Iyandra (23:19):
Wow, this is all for me. And-
Christina Thumper Hopper (23:21):
Well some of it is written in my mistake, I will say that. You know, I haven't always gotten these things right. And so, you know, you learn a lot from your mistakes. And from the, um, the times that you don't get it right. (laughs)
Iyandra (23:31):
Yes, yes. I heard Muhammad Ali say that. He said he learned more from the fights he lost than the fights he won. And I'm just thinking everything that you're saying is- is, I'm- I'm soaking it all in. I- I remember watching Top Gun and I was like, I don't know how you're in that plane by yourself and- and- and literally the enemies are attacking you. And fire is just aimed at you. And you has a mission where you almost didn't make it. Tell us a little but about that mission, how you were feeling in the moment.
Christina Thumper Hopper (24:01):
Okay.
Iyandra (24:01):
What happened?
Christina Thumper Hopper (24:03):
Yes. So, um, it was the second night of operation Iraqi freedom. And, um, it was a terrible sandstorm combined with thunderstorms all throughout the area. And we got launched on a mission to go and take out, um, an enemy supply line that was disrupting our army's capability to get to Baghdad. So Baghdad was the goal, they were pushing north, um, to get there. And, um, so we were flying higher than normal, um, altitudes to air refuel. We were bouncing around to take on our fuel. And then, um, we got the mission, uh, command to execute and to continue to our target.
(24:40):
Um, we were carrying 4000 pounds worth of ordinance, um, myself and my flight lead each. Um, so we had, uh, the big bombs, they were GPS guided munitions. And, um, and we were supposed to take out the enemy supply line. Well in route to the target, my aircraft got struck by lightening. And I never thought I'd be struck by lightening but I'm one of those people who could say at least my aircraft was struck by lightening. And, um, initially we could see the, like, crackles of light coming off the front of the F16. And, like, we had night vision goggles on so, um, it looks like when you put your hands on the sides of a plasma globe, um, you know how you'll just see the little static come off your fingers. Um-
Iyandra (25:20):
Yeah.
Christina Thumper Hopper (25:20):
It looked like that. But then I saw a bright flash. And I was like, "Oh, I think that was lightening." So it took out my threat warning system. Um, and then, uh, the threat warning system is what tells us if we're being targeted by, um, enemy surface-to-air, uh, missiles. And, uh, so I knew that in that moment now I'm gonna be blind to any threats. I won't be able to see if they launch something at me.
(25:45):
Um, so I told my flight lead what the situation was and we talked about it and decided we were gonna continue to go to the target. And, um-
Iyandra (25:55):
Wow.
Christina Thumper Hopper (25:55):
... so we were able to successfully get to the target, um, we, uh, dropped our bombs on time. Were able- able to return without further incident. And when I got back and landed, um, my crew chief looked at my aircraft and he said, "Captain, what did you do?" (laughs) 'Cause the entire front section of the aircraft was just completely, all the avionics and electronics there were just fried. Um-
Iyandra (26:22):
Wow.
Christina Thumper Hopper (26:23):
And so, uh, it had clearly been struck by lightening and taken on damage. But, um, but we were able to successfully execute. Um, and-
Iyandra (26:31):
Yeah.
Christina Thumper Hopper (26:31):
... a lot of that-
Iyandra (26:32):
That's amazing.
Christina Thumper Hopper (26:32):
... had to do with what I call, um, and what we in the fighter community call mutual support. So we never go into combat alone. We always go with at least one other aircraft, sometimes three others. So we call them two ships or four ships. And, um, and we, we're doing all of our missions in conjunction with another person. So having the support of my flight lead and knowing that he was going to back me up, um, was a huge tremendous help to me and it gave me courage to push in even though it was a little frightening.
Iyandra (27:07):
Wow. I- I don't know how you did that. You're so courageous. I- I just, I mean it's a movie. I'm, like, the way you're describing it. I'm like, we should have a movie called Thumper because-
Christina Thumper Hopper (27:18):
(laughs)
Iyandra (27:19):
... that is amazing, that is so incredible. And I just think about all the amazing people that you had around you. Like during this entire journey you were supported by your flight lead. But I mean it seemed like, you know, even your commander. I mean tell- tell us a little bit about how those key influential figure, you know, were instrumental to you succeeding on this journey.
Christina Thumper Hopper (27:43):
Okay. So you know how we talked earlier about, um, just assuming good intentions of people and how you carry yourself says a lot to other people about, um, the type of person that you are. And- and that you are a team player and that they- they want you, um, they want you to succeed. Um, so I had several commanders who, um, just poured into me. They, uh, they mentored me. They saw potential in me and they gave me opportunities. And as they gave me those opportunities, um, I never took them for granted. If they gave me an opportunity to lead, I rushed through that door and I, um, would do the best that I could, um, at every job that- that was given to me.
(28:25):
And so when you have people advocates, um, some people call them sponsors that are looking out for you and just are helping you along the way then, um, you will start to see yourself just have opportunities to climb. And, um, and- and I had several of those, um, those, uh, gentlemen that were in my life that were pouring into me. Because there obviously weren't a lot of women around to mentor me. Um, most of the women that were around me were my peers, so we were all kind of going through that together.
(28:56):
And I do think that there is the potential to mentor each other with your peers, um, as well. But, yes, I would say I had, uh, multiple commanders who looked out for me. Um, in fact when- when I got pregnant in my, uh, second flying assignment and I- I was terrified to go and tell my commander that, hey I'm not gonna be able to fly for a little bit and here's what's going on. Um, but his response the opportunities that he gave me in spire of the news that I brought him, um, was just a breath of fresh air. So-
Iyandra (29:34):
Wow.
Christina Thumper Hopper (29:34):
... he was, um, very excited for me. He gave me other jobs to do that were non flying so that I would still have opportunities to progress. And he still saw the leadership potential and the opportunities, um- um, in me. And so he opened up doors for me in spite of the fact that during that time I couldn't fly. And so I- I absolutely think it's important for us to have, um, leaders around us like that, that help us.
Iyandra (30:00):
I mean I could only imagine when you found out you was pregnant, going in to him. You know, the fear you feel. 'Cause as women, especially women in leadership positions and male dominated fields, you're like this should be a really good thing. I'm bringing a new life into the world, but the reality is this will highlight even more so the difference between me and my counterparts. How am I gonna be treated? For ambitious women who wanna continue climbing the ladder, is this gonna stall my progress?
(30:28):
And- and how- how has motherhood treated you? Uh, when it came to your career journey. You know, I- I hate, I hate this notion of work life balance 'cause you never ask men the question at all. You know, and the men are married with children but we only ask it to women. But the reality is, women are often the ones when you look at the data that are effected, uh, by what we call this invisible burden or invisible work load that comes with- with being a mom. So- so how have you been able to navigate that with this dynamic, incredible, adventurous job of combat fighter pilot?
Christina Thumper Hopper (31:03):
Well I think that many corporations, including the air force, um, have opportunities for you to be flexible in how you, um, uh, execute your job. Um, and I would say in the air force, when I got to the end of my active duty commitment I separated from the- the active duty air force and then, um, a few years later I joined the reserve. Well in the reserve and guard you have the opportunity to serve part-time. And there are many businesses that offer what I would call these on off ramps. Opportunities for you to go part-time for a period of time and then to come back full-time at other times. And men have those opportunities too. So they're kind of open to anybody who needs flexible, uh, a flexible work schedule.
(31:51):
So that's one of the ways that, um, that I he- that helped me as I navigated the balance of work with my family. I would also say that so often people talk about, um, like, how do you do it all? And I, my answer to that is I don't do it all. It takes a village. And you need to acknowledge that it takes a village and to seek out the village. So build your tribe. Um, I have friends, my husbands helps. Um, I have family members. All of these people that have poured in. And I, and I've not been afraid to ask for that help.
(32:28):
Um, there were times where my husband and I had a full-time nanny who would work with us and our kids and- and their schedules while we were at work. Um, we never had a live-in nanny but there were some people that have done that as well. And so I just think depending on what your values are, you need to determine, first of all, your values and order your, uh, your work, your life, and your family according to those values. I think that if you do that, put your values out there, determine what order they come in, and then set your work and life according to those values, then you'll find yourself very satisfied. And- and I think it becomes easier to balance everything because you know which things come first.
Iyandra (33:12):
Yes. Oh you can't do it all. That- that frees me.
Christina Thumper Hopper (33:17):
Mm-hmm.
Iyandra (33:17):
That frees me from wanting to be, like, the super woman that's trying to do everything, you know? So- so thank you so much for that. I- I reached out to- to so many people in my excitement, you know. I'm gonna get to speak to Thumper, this amazing, uh, first black female combat fighter pilot in war. And everybody was like, "Oh we wish we could talk to her too." So I had to make, I had to give some promises and- and say, "Okay, I'll ask her some of the things you want me to ask her."
(33:43):
So- so a member of our team, he was like, I really wanna know has she ever seen a UFO. (laughs)
Christina Thumper Hopper (33:48):
(laughs)
Iyandra (33:48):
Yes.
Christina Thumper Hopper (33:53):
No I've never seen a UFO. And I still wonder about them because I do know that there are pilots that report seeing strange phenomenon, um, and taking pictures of strange phenomenon. And, um, I've seen some of those videos. I, it's never happened to me. Um, but I think it would be kind of cool.
Iyandra (34:11):
Yeah.
Christina Thumper Hopper (34:12):
I would like to.
Iyandra (34:15):
I don't know. Everybody's so curious about that. It's like, oh, you know, that's the first thing they think of. And- and your job to everybody is, like, a dream job. Oh we wish we could do that.
Christina Thumper Hopper (34:23):
(laughs)
Iyandra (34:24):
I- I don't know if we- we have what you have to do it. But, you know, everybody-
Christina Thumper Hopper (34:29):
Well you might be surprised, you know. I think that, um, I hear people all the time say, "Oh I could never do what you do." And I'm like, "Well how do you know that?"
Iyandra (34:36):
Yeah.
Christina Thumper Hopper (34:37):
So that's my question. Um, I think sometimes that can be a way of selling ourselves short. And maybe we don't all wanna do the same things and that's fine. But you, we should always kind of challenge our assumptions. I could never, then my question is, well how do you know that? (laughs)
Iyandra (34:54):
Yes, yes. Because when you're put in a situation there's a lot of strength within you that you could muster up-
Christina Thumper Hopper (35:00):
Mm-hmm.
Iyandra (35:01):
... that you didn't know was there previously. Uh, once you're ready to go and once you believe. So I love that, I love that so much. Looking back on your incredible journey, uh, think back to when you were the 18-year-old. What- what advice would you give that 18-year-old female now?
Christina Thumper Hopper (35:19):
If I could look back and talk to that 18-year-old, um, I think I would tell her that you're smarter and more capable that you think. And ultimately, I am saying those very things to my teenagers now. Um, my son recently told me, you know, he- he felt like he had a bad experience on a math test and kind of got into that spiral of, well, you know, if I can't get this math down then I can't get into a good college. And then I can't get a good job and it, and it just spiraled on down. And going back to what we talked about earlier with regard to grit, um, I told him, I said, "You know, you are capable and you are intelligent enough."
(36:05):
But that, let's just set that aside for a minute and realize that you don't even have to be the smartest person to be successful. We see CEOs that, um, that create corporations and- and create businesses without even having a college degree. And-
Iyandra (36:26):
Right.
Christina Thumper Hopper (36:28):
... it's the grit, it's the desire, the passion, and the willingness to risk that enabled them to become successful. And so I just encouraged my kids with that, and that's what I would've told myself because I think there were times where, you know, even when I got into college where I thought, I could never do that. I'm not capable of that. And I never thought that I would have the courage to face some of the things that I have faced. But I realized that, um, courage happens one challenge at a time. And each time we come up and face that challenge and make that decision to press in instead of to run away, then we grow a little bit in our courage and our resilience. And it gives us what we need, it fortifies us for the next challenge.
(37:15):
So that's kind of what I would tell my 18-year-old self is you're more courageous, you have more in you than what you think. So don't be afraid to try.
Iyandra (37:24):
Oh. Love that. We need a drum roll on that. That- that is incredible. I'm gonna print that out actually and give that my 11-year-old daughter so she has it. And you have this incredible group that you launched called the Van Super Girls. Tell us about that. That group sounds so cool. Van Super Girls.
Christina Thumper Hopper (37:41):
Well that was a mentorship group that I started, um, when, um, when I got here, uh, to pilot training and started teaching, um, young- young, um, women. And- and I mean I wasn't just teaching women. But specifically I created the group to mentor young women that were me 20 years ago. So I- I realized that I had come through a lot through my career. And there were so many questions and so many things. Like I told you, a lot of the things that I faced, I had to find my peers and we had to figure it out. But now I was in a position where 20 years down the line I have the ability to look back and- and maybe share some of that wisdom. Um, and share some of the mistakes that I made. And to try to help these young ladies navigate what it means to be a female pilot and especially a female fighter pilot in a male dominated world. And how they could find their voice and advocate for themselves.
(38:42):
So that was kind of the, um, the impetus behind the group was to be mentors, to, uh, I- I got other female instructors on board. And so we worked together to mentor these young ladies, to help them, um, you know, understand some of the things that we've talked about, um, like how we self eliminate and hold ourselves back. Um, to try to just help them find the courage earlier than we did so that they could, you know, become, uh, reach their potential and become everything that they were meant to be.
Iyandra (39:13):
What- what you're doing with Van Super Girls in incredible. I, one of my favorite books is Atomic Habits. And, uh, in the book the author says that the number one indicator of success in terms of the habits we form, uh, you know, our journey, what we end up producing in the end-
Christina Thumper Hopper (39:30):
Mm-hmm.
Iyandra (39:31):
... is going to be the mentorship, the network, the circle of influence. Uh, because the reality is when you're, when you're on a journey and you're doing it on your own you're making mistake. You know, because you don't have the wisdom not to make them.
Christina Thumper Hopper (39:44):
Mm-hmm.
Iyandra (39:44):
Or you don't have people around you that are passing you the baton or passing you opportunities. It makes the journey so much harder.
Christina Thumper Hopper (39:51):
Yeah.
Iyandra (39:51):
So- so what you've created, uh, where you're actually sort of passing the baton to- to younger coming up. But you're also saying, let me tell you what I think you should do in this situation. Is- is absolutely incredible. And- and I think that a lot of women need to understand the power of a circle of influence. I like to call it like a person, every- every woman should have a personal board of directors. Uh, you know, even- even for me coming into-
Christina Thumper Hopper (40:17):
I love that.
Iyandra (40:17):
Yeah. Personal board of directors. Uh, coming into- into fintech that's heavily male dominated over the past few years I've had to, myself, curate a personal board. You know, and I've learned so much in the past year, right, just from having females, you, you know, mentors who have done the, you know, the Silicon Valley CEO, who's now on the Fortune 500 board, or- or the VC.
Christina Thumper Hopper (40:38):
Mm-hmm.
Iyandra (40:39):
And they're telling me I've gone through exactly what you've gone through. But let me tell you what I think you should do in this situation. It's- it's been so mind blowing and it's helping me so much. And so I absolutely love what you're doing with Van Super Girls. That's incredible. So-
Christina Thumper Hopper (40:53):
That's so beautiful.
Iyandra (40:55):
Yeah, yes. I- I wanna play this game I call rapid fire.
Christina Thumper Hopper (41:00):
Oh.
Iyandra (41:00):
And really because the whole reason why I decided to launch Only Fems was I wanted women to level up. Level up themselves, grow, develop. How can you today make yourself 1% better?
Christina Thumper Hopper (41:13):
Mm-hmm.
Iyandra (41:13):
Uh, and so I'm gonna say a word and I just want you to say how a woman can either improve herself in that area or maximize space in that area enabling her to level up. Okay?
Christina Thumper Hopper (41:24):
Okay.
Iyandra (41:24):
You ready? So the first word is skills.
Christina Thumper Hopper (41:31):
I would say keep going back to school, or, um, keep reading. Um, it doesn't necessarily require that I go back to school to get a degree. But, uh, but keep reading. Find your interests, your passions, and- and read on them. Learn a little bit more. For me in my adult life it became, you know, mindset. Uh, as I realized how much my mindset effected my own success then I began to read more in that area, read the science behind it, read opinions about it. So that I could, um, begin to teach that more to other people. And to kind of put words to what I was already experiencing. So I would say just- just keeping digging in, keep reading and learning. And, uh, that will increase your skillsets.
Iyandra (42:18):
Oh that is so good. Just keep on taking in additional knowledge. The next word is time.
Christina Thumper Hopper (42:25):
Don't procrastinate. (laughs)
Iyandra (42:28):
You know we like to procrastinate over here.
Christina Thumper Hopper (42:30):
Yes. So many people they wanna put off things. And, um, you know, I, there are so many programs out there that can help you. Um, one that I realized or learned about recently is called Click Up. And it just helps you kind of, uh, organize I need to do this, this, this, this, this. And lists them out. And then you can put priorities on them. And I think that one of the things that really easy to do, um, as a, as a business leader, um, in any organization is to get sucked in by the tyranny of the urgent. You know, that thing that's calling to you right now that wasn't on your list of things to do for today. And so it's just about kind of determining is this thing urgent and important or can it wait?
Iyandra (43:16):
Right, right.
Christina Thumper Hopper (43:17):
And if it can wait then keep focusing on the task that you've set before you. And you'll find that you have more time. The second thing I'll say about time is margin. Build margin. Um, I think we all like to use I'm busy as like a banner. I'm busy. And we think that that, you know, that makes us better. But you need to build time in for rest. Uh, you need to build time in for your family. And if you do that, then even though you were busy you will find more satisfaction and happiness in life.
Iyandra (43:53):
Oh. I- I felt that. That was coming at me. (laughs) Energy, energy.
Christina Thumper Hopper (44:00):
Exercise. You want more energy, you've gotta exercise. And you've got to get to bed at a decent time. That, the getting to bed at a decent time is one that I've been struggling with lately as I age. I used to be eight hours, you know, consistently all the time. Um, but I would say prioritize, uh, organizing your evenings so that you can get to bed at a decent time so that you can wake up and exercise. And I like to do my exercise in the morning. You don't necessarily have to do yours in the morning. But you do need to do it. And I feel like it's a great way to start my day. So, um, that's one of the ways that- that I gain energy.
Iyandra (44:38):
Love that. Ambition. And this is a really complex word.
Christina Thumper Hopper (44:44):
Yeah.
Iyandra (44:44):
Because it's- it's used in such a negative way. But it's also such a great thing and- and people are still trying to grapple with, you know, just the- the word. You know, so what- what does the word mean to you, ambition?
Christina Thumper Hopper (44:58):
Ambition. To me it means having goals. It means having something that you want to pursue and a lot of times we'll make our goals really general. And so we- we have a goal that we wanna do something but we don't really know how to get there. So I would say ambition is setting the goal, and then coming up with a framework for how you accomplish that goal. And then when you do goal setting, you should have, like, a longterm goal that this is the ultimate place I wanna end up. But then you also need some baby step goals along the way that encourage you to keep going. I think that's why so many people will set, like, a New Year's resolution and then they just forget about it a month later.
Iyandra (45:37):
Oh yeah.
Christina Thumper Hopper (45:38):
Because they, the idea is in their mind and it's a great idea. Like I wanna lose weight or I wanna exercise more. And so they think that they're gonna go from, uh, sitting on the couch to running marathons the next day. And it doesn't happen like that. It happens in small chunks. So maybe you just get out and you walk one mile. And if one mile seems like too much then maybe it's just a half a mile. And, um, 10 to 15 minutes. And we feel like if we don't do that, uh, 30 minutes that we just may as well not put our workout clothes on or something like that. You know? So that's kind of how I look at ambition. If you wanna reach those amazing goals that you have, then set your sights on some smaller chunks to get you there. And then you'll look back a year or two from the goal and see that you've accomplished it and now you need something new to- to pursue.
Iyandra (46:27):
Oh that's great. That's so great. And the last word is money. (laughs)
Christina Thumper Hopper (46:35):
Oh live within your means.
Iyandra (46:38):
Yes.
Christina Thumper Hopper (46:38):
I'm laughing because this is conflicting for me.
Iyandra (46:42):
(laughs)
Christina Thumper Hopper (46:44):
Um, I would say do your best to- to get or stay debt free. Um-
Iyandra (46:50):
Okay.
Christina Thumper Hopper (46:51):
Maybe with the exception of a home, um, you know, maybe cars. But everything else you wanna live within your means. And it's really easy to spend ahead of what you're making. Um, it's really easy to want what you see your friends having or to want that little bit of extra. And so you go, okay, I'm just gonna charge it today. Um, but that can really add up and it can become, you know, detrimental to your overall, uh, life satisfaction, your stress levels. And, um, and everything else.
(47:19):
So I would say money is- is nice. But don't let it, don't let it command you. Use it as- as something that- that enriches your life and not something that causes you- you stress and that takes away from your- your life satisfaction because then you'll be spending your entire life and career just pursuing the money instead of pursuing, you know, the things that really make life rich. Um, like your family and- and your friends, and your faith, and- and your values. Um, so I think that if we can put money in its proper place, it's important but it's not everything.
Iyandra (47:54):
Oh. That- that- that was amazing. I had a friend recently tell me that she had a billionaire client, um, who is- is sick right now. And he said, "The money doesn't matter." He said, "What matters at this point now that I'm looking at my life drawing to a close is the legacy that I'm leaving."
Christina Thumper Hopper (48:15):
Yeah.
Iyandra (48:15):
And that's through the people that I've impacted, my family, my friends. Uh, and how many people after I'm gone can continue to do my work. So- so that's amazing. Which-
Christina Thumper Hopper (48:24):
Yeah I always tell me kids, um, people are more important than things. And, um, I think if you could keep that in mind when you are pursuing your day-to-day activities, that you'll have things ordered correctly. And you'll find that your life is just richer.
Iyandra (48:43):
Yeah.
Christina Thumper Hopper (48:43):
It's more satisfying.
Iyandra (48:45):
Yes. So the purpose of Only Fems is to really incite and bring about positive change. And all of us, we have aspects of the world that we'd like to see change for the better. But really and truly it begins with us. So final question, if we need to be the change that we wanna see in the world, what change would you be and how will you embody it?
Christina Thumper Hopper (49:15):
One of the things I talked to you about earlier was how we look at people. And when we see people do something, do we assume they have good intentions or bad intentions? And that has kind of been a mantra for me this year. That was kind of one of the focuses of my year was to look at people and to assume good intentions. And so if I'm gonna be the change that I wanna see, I want people to assume good intentions of me. When I'm doing things if- if I hurt them I wanna know that I've hurt them and I want them to know that I didn't intend to hurt them. And so I wanna understand how I can get better in that area.
(49:51):
And so I feel like if I can assume good intentions of people, it helps me to stay calmer and less angry. Uh, to hold less grudges. Um, and to be more forgiving of people and just you- you don't get as angry because you realize, like, if you look at them and say, "Oh, I don't think they meant that that way." Or I don't think they intended to do that. Because I know that they love me. And, um, if we're able to assume that type of good intention of people then it just gives you more peace and more joy in your life. And I think that that spreads to other people. They'll see your light. They see that light and they see that difference in you. So that's the kind of change I wanna be.
Iyandra (50:30):
Be the light. Be the light. I love that. Thumper, thank you so much for being on the podcast. This has truly been an amazing, exciting conversation and I can't wait share you the world. Thank you so much.
Christina Thumper Hopper (50:44):
Thank you. It's been great-
Iyandra (50:45):
Yeah.
Christina Thumper Hopper (50:46):
... talking with you today. I've enjoyed your questions and just the conversation's been very rich.